But that's all a moot point. When discussing the FBI and their conclusion that agents shoot better with the 9 mm, all I can say is look at their shooters. Damn good question and I have wondered this myself. On these metrics, the rounds are generall equal. I'm still on the fence about it though. Let me start out by saying that the biggest mistake that most people make is taking a black-and-white stance on the .45 ACP and 9mm. Then retreat after spraying. My understanding is that most defensive shootings occur at 10 feet or less; probably because of the requirement to hold off until you are in fear of losing your life (home invasions not withstanding). Hmmm, always been a 1911 45cal chap,although 38cal is certainly better than 9mm which has been known to bounce off suspects believe it or not.Good article,interesting points! I really enjoy carrying the 22 TCM, 19 rnd, 40 gr hollow points. You are so lucky Benjamin. Because thats how many studies there are. This is a valuable consideration to those who want one load across the board for their carry gun and duty rig. YouTube - Store data on what videos from YouTube the user has seen - 2. I once read an account by someone who shot an intruder at close range with a shotgun. Anyone else think the same thing? Haha. Muzzle velocity is key. Threat is neutralized. We switched to Sigs P226 which was wonderful, but accuracy dropped. Sit down, you sound dumb. For the elderly, the recoil of the standard 1911 45 is lesser because of its weight. Maybe spray and a 30-30 rifle. Second, our judges demand, that each shot has to be beforethought = you can shoot perp once and then you have to evaluate, if he stoped his attack. In certain situations, such as home defense in the middle of the night, the slightly higher capacity of the 9mm handgun may make it a preferred weapon. e.g. which should I use a 9 mm or a .45? The _ga cookie, installed by Google Analytics, calculates visitor, session and campaign data and also keeps track of site usage for the site's analytics report. Only because many pokice depts as hiring more and more females. Same debates have raged on Betamax vs VHS, mustang vs camaro, HD-DVD vs Bluray, etc etc. . My personal favorite without a doubt is the 1911 design, even though it's heavy, expensive to shoot, and has a limited magazine. Well written article. However, I have to admit youre way ahead of us with the second amendment! Some modern 45 jhp loads are creating wound channels on par with 12 ga foster slugs. The Trijcon Laser/ Spot/ Flash is also bore sighted low to compensate for 300 yds with a 4x32 Leupold Huntsman Hi-Rise Mounted Scope on 1/2" QD Camlock to transfer to the Bulldog with the Bipod/ Foregrip. 9mm is not close. My first thought is: .45 is better because it's bigger. I doubt that lady would have had time to reload. Like the logo of a Very Familiar training range: Also avg distance of civilian gunfights are extremely close quarters. That is the EXCEPTION!! The FBI report made it clear that the more consistent accuracy of 9mm in the hands of their less experienced shooters was a factor in their returning to 9mm as their standard handgun caliber. and 45LC with one shot kills, both head shots. If you are going to use that short of a barreled P.C.C. As the most popular handgun cartridge, 9mm ammo is available with every conceivable type of projectile including frangible, shot, rubber, and blank. The 9mm Luger has a muzzle velocity of 1,120 feet-per-second (fps), while the .357 Magnum touts a muzzle velocity of 1,240 fps, despite the fact that its bullet is 34 grains heavier. You got a bad guy? A 9mm is generally cheaper, has less recoil and higher velocity than a .45 ACP. When comparing the two handguns, its important to note that the 9mm hasnt become better than the .45 ACPit just caught up to it. If you're really intent on a firearmgo bigger. Subsonic for a bullet is slow . Then the news says the perp was taken to hospital with life threatening injuries. One hit with a larger caliber is more debilitating than a smaller one. I don't know-seek advice. Velocity and barrel length data for 9x19mm Parabellum, also known as 9mm Luger and so on. Need more.? Maybe alternate .45 hollow point and hot buffalo bore or extreme penetrator (best of both worlds). It is heavy and rattles, and the bullet is fat, short, and slow." The .45 was becoming a dinasaur. The bigger bullets may make a temporary cavity but the permanent cavities are pretty much indistinguishable to coroners. Glocks are the best semi auto, there's no debate about it. Everyone has their own confidence level and may believe what people tell them or what they read. Wrong, you change the angle. Do you want to be shooting a bullet likely to go through a wall or a car door killing or maiming an innocent bystander? If a 10 round magazine is more than you would likely ever need (a homeowner), go with the 45. 3. Don't be so quick to kill your brother just because his opinion is different than yours . So, I disagree with the Taylor KO index . i have used them on Coyotes and have seen the damage they are quite impressive. Both are valid points and very understandable reasons to prefer one over the other. I own both 9 and 45 because I enjoy both and in a shtf both will be needed. That is literally the definition of subsonic : below a certain speed ( the speed of sound). My defense weapon is the 45 at this time. Testing conditions were 50 degrees Fahrenheit with full sunlight. Better find out. Thankfully my training kicked in. Subscribe to Pew Pew Tactical's sales and deals email. 9mm or 45acp? Then again, if penetration through a bedroom door, heavy jacket, glass, etc your .45 won't make it to the target, so much to think about! So I purchased big bore gun :D and hope for rapid blood pressure drop which will cause unconsciousness, or that this bullet will go trought and break spine. I fired four magazines on patrol engagements and was credited by MI at debriefs with seven confirmed. With modern ballistics the 9mm went from weak and unreliable to usable. You cant beat the trigger on a .45 1911. Brandon Harville, There is a link to a notorious anti-gun organization in your article. My test pistols came in the uniform shape of a Glock 43 (3.39), Glock 19 (4), and Glock 34 (5.3). Americans note that Europeans have small countries with a central government each, whereas the US is a country thousands of miles across with 367 million people, and a ton of different states. Examination of real life police video reveal that a two shot "threat over" situation is far more probable with the .45 over the 9mm. Lets take a look at the selling points of each one to help you decide. For my 9mm velocity test I would use only Glock pistols. Now you must shout for him to get down/leave, because your selected ammunition could possibly over penetrate and harm someone in another room, and hope the situation doesn't escalate to him reacting in instinctive action by charging or shooting at you. 250 plus opinions here and counting but for once I'd say they're not like A holeseveryone has one yet none stink. Bottom line though all are great weapons. I have total confidence in that pistol. Theyve got lots of data on many calibers. However on the range I like 9mm CZ P01 or Sig Sauer, I'm of the opinion that your article, as good as it is, is lacking in accurately assessing the capacity issue. The average is 3. LEOs average 20-30% hits in a gunfight. The cookie stores information anonymously and assigns a randomly generated number to recognize unique visitors. Really? Thats where the .357 SIG comes into play. What metric are we using to judge us as the winners of ww2? Per chance were you assigned to Devonshire Division of LAPD? Modern 9mm hollowpoints nearly always expand, especially if you're using +p rounds at close range it's pretty much guaranteed. New powders and more advanced bullet designs used only work for the 9mm not 45 acp or 40 S&W? If you can place three (3) rounds in the black, the debate of 9mm vs 45 acp does not really mater. They took refuge in some kind of small room with a door on it. Advancements in modern defensive ammo technology have helped the 9mm improve by leaps and bounds over the past 30 years. If you live in an apartment, or even a neighborhood, there's no way to know what's behind your target. YouTube sets this cookie via embedded youtube-videos and registers anonymous statistical data. However, if the same linebacker hits you at a sprinting speed of 14 miles per hour, its really going to hurt. Federal American Eagle 9mm BONUS: Shoot better. 11k plains, 6k tanks, 300k trucks, and 3 million tons of food were sent by the USA to the USSR. If you notice, .40 S&W and .45 ACP have the same average energy, but as I showed earlier, .45 ACP penetrates more on gel tests. My 2 primary guns are a Canik TP9SA 19 shot 9mm and a 7 shot Taurus TRACKER 357magnum. Their is also a cost difference thou if you look around you can get ammo cheaper. He removed the bottleneck from the predecessors casing to meet the German militarys demand for a larger diameter projectile. question, This has been a very interesting post! This cookie, set by YouTube, registers a unique ID to store data on what videos from YouTube the user has seen. I cant see the situation where I would have to return fire on someone standing 25 yards away and where I would initiate shooting against someone at that distance. First of all, a higher muzzle velocity will mean a straighter trajectory down range. The day after the craziness was all over and the police had finished up and gone, the body was gone and everyone was kinda trying to figure out what to do next, the homeowner took stock of the surroundings in the room where he had shot the intruder. We hate SPAM and promise to keep your email address safe. Owning at least 1 9mm seems practical though, as availability of ammo is likely even in a SHTF situation. Also keep in mind that the study, and their recommendation, was based off of the assumption that they were going to be equipping thousands of people with the new weapons. Weve got a dedicated section for the AR-15 here. n 2014, the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) released a report detailing the potential combat effectiveness of the 9mm cartridge when compared to other calibers such as the .45 ACP and the .40 S&W cartridge that was specifically developed for use by the FBI. Actually, we ALL have a soul, but only TRUE Christians (born again believers) have a spirit. just stick to a pistol and out to a max of 16 P.C.C. Some of the data that are collected include the number of visitors, their source, and the pages they visit anonymously. I currently carry a .40 s&w. To actually answer the question of velocity by barrel length for 9mm Luger, and what the ideal barrel length is, namely for something like an AR-15 / AR-9 pistol or SBR, we'll discuss below. Their testing shows some bullets speed up and slow down and speed up and so on, as they travel up the barrel. He probably also thought that a .22 LR will bounce around inside the rib cage. Muzzle velocity is something youll see on boxes of ammunition and on ballistics stat sheets, but you may not know exactly how muzzle velocity impacts performance. He wrote: The FBI and many police departments are going back to the 9mm for one reason and one reason only its easier to qualify with a 9mm. Bull!! What I read about that encounter sickened me. Also the title of the article seems to contradict his conclusion that the extremes are seperated by a mere 10%. I would take the 1911 but some folks freak when they open carry. hands, it does have a MUCH snappier felt recoil. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The link is entitled to be wrong lol, the capacity of 9mm the distance and all is great . IMHO (other than good social time discussions about guns and fishing tackle) forget the caliber wars. U.S.A. -(Ammoland.com)- Ever since I first mentioned doing a .45 ACP muzzle velocity article, people have been asking me if I would do a follow-up with the 9x19mm. I've never had anyone die from being shot with any handgun round. If you still wanted to maintain an ultra-short setup with a suppressor, you could go even shorter with barrel length, as the additional length of the suppressor will increase velocity. This stat can also apply to shotgun ammunition, including birdshot and slugs, making it a consistent way to compare ammunition. You must dress around your guns. What-ever you choose.get practice. CQB scenarios where youre within the 17 engagements and you want to do work quietly, the .45 ACP has all of the advantages. Take all this with a pinch of salt, I'm no expert. As far as capacity goes, I live in a 10 round state. Fortunate enough to equip your firearm with a suppressor? So say it has a 500 FPS advantage. Here it is for those of us who have long since forgotten: KE = 0.5 m v2 where m = mass of object v = speed of object Not only are the Lehigh loads the most visually appealing due to their artful machining, but they ranked the highest in uniformity and had some of the lowest SD (standard deviation) of anything tested. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Don't come here like an expert when you clearly base all of your knowledge on YouTube videos you've watched. As you can see with .357 SIG, which has greater velocity and mass than .45 ACP, it still penetrates less. The penetration myth is a myth. I wrote a loooong rebuttal to your post, but I lost it so you don't have to read it now! And that's why an old lady clings to her old 1911 :). Its like firing a 58cal. I dont know, however, this translates to a roughly 10% increase in energy being put into your target. haha. There really isnt any hydrostatic shock to speak of at handgun cartridge velocities to begin with. Few people carry the G 34 however which is usually used for competition shooting. Lots of bullets. I prefer more shock per hit. Loads and bullet design are next factored into specific use, it is the icing on the cake to select a velocity to maximize that use. Many say that it is all about round placement, true, but I have seen .45 rounds place in none critical areas and still knock the person off theor feet. If you, as an individual, can put in the training required to fully leverage 40S&W or 45acp then it can be a great choice for personal defense. And 357 magnum also. Saw a Gentleman post earlier that hes proficient with a .45 at 75 yards. BTW, I like the 9mm and .45 pretty much equally and have both calibers. I dont understand why a situation in a street would be different than at home. Not sure which one is best for you? With half coming in under 400 ft lb. American manufacture and the American firearms industry was able to restock and resupply them when no one else could have. Measurements are the opposite of vague . Your mileage will vary. i agree and i hear that every day. So if you double tap someone or use Mozambique you are in lots of troubles and you are looking for serious jali time for murder. Due to all of these factors, law enforcement orders of 9mm ammo from all major ammunition manufacturers have spiked significantly. Lend-lease conditions were allegedly exorbitant but the US manufacturing base was undeniably a godsend), plus some of the other margins you refer to were, frankly, too close to argue, so I wont even try. Your 45 will end up in their pocket instead of their chest what if your outside? Even within AR-15s, muzzle velocity might be very different from gun to gun. I am still open to 9mm thats why I was considering the sig but I do love the style and extra safety features of the kimber. So, even if the 45 "hits harder", that only matters if your on target. Engagements where distance and volume of fire are important, 9mm has the advantage. If a bullet is traveling at a faster speed, it will either penetrate deeper, expand better, or both. Muzzle energy is important, however, whoever said that 9mm has more muzzle energy that .45 ACP is pulling numbers of of their ass unless they are making an unfair comparison of +P 9mm to normal .45 ACP. Your statement is factually in error. Its a good compromise between the 9 and the 45. ANYONE who says in a civilian encounter they can end it in 3 shots is either a psychopath, a liar, or never been in a SHTF scenario. Add in the big, fat, slow, it would seem the only advantage of a 45 is if the target is in the room with you. Then the spray and pray method was adopted. Energy at the target, which is considered critical to terminal performance, is enhanced when a bullet is traveling at a higher speed. People tend to practice more with a weapon they are comfortable with. I like the .45 Auto round. I realize these instances are rare but one things for sure i can cut a target in half with rapid shots so easily with a 1022 because of zero recoil i think i could shoot 4 rounds to 1 outta my 45. (All listings are fps). It is therefore not only the most popular handgun cartridge in America, but very likely the most popular cartridge period. This backs up what I am saying about mass accounting for more in terms of penegation as velocity builds energy more than mass. So, if you consider 10 rounds of 45ACP sufficient, then, definitely, the choice would be the Glock 30. I would think soldiers in fire fights face similar circumstances, except with more opponents who may also have body armor, which would favor the 9mm further, since it pierces armor better. Personally I like them all! The same size 9mm semi auto usually holds more rounds (often 15+1) than a 45. From the days of the trusty Colt M1911 to modern .45 caliber handguns like the Glock G21 and the Sig Sauer P220, the .45 ACP has always been one of the most reliable calibers on the market. Factory loaded rounds are most commonly available with 115, 124, or 147 grain projectiles. https://ammo.com/articles/handgun-wounding-factors-guide I have been shot, it happened in the suburbs back in '74. The people are different, the lifestyle is different, the people think different. I have pistols chambered in .22lr, 9mm Luger, .40 S7W, 357 SIG, and .45 ACP. In this case, the 9mm has a velocity of 1,150 feet-per-second (fps), while the larger .40-caliber bullet leaves the barrel at 919 fps. If a higher capacity magazine (15) might be needed (such as law enforcement), go with the 9mm. Here is what an okd timer officer wrote about the subject. The 45 makes bigger hole while 357 punches deeper. So, caliber choice. Once it is dead, it cannot be deader. I know it would have been a lot more work but I was slightly disappointed that you did not include the Glock17 with the 4.6 inch barrel. Compromise. I started shooting at age 8 I am now 64, aferter seeing many debates on this topic, here is my own opinion the best pistol or rifle for self defense is the one that you can shoot the best. So you can literally grab, draw, aim and shoot. While there are a number of compact .45 ACP models on the market, as a general rule, you can expect the 9mm to be more comfortable to carry in a holster. But, had I not experienced it, I never would have believed it would happen to me. I don't think the debate will ever be answered. Real world outcomes of all special forces who only use 9mm? 4. One type of ammo in both guns makes things easier. When I was young military carried 45acp most leo where I live carried 357. Its not the same underpowered round that the FBI abandoned in the early 1980s. And speaking of commentswe had some fun with this video. Happily, I have some larger mags which were purchased prior to the 10+ ban, so are 'grandfathered' in! I had the only 45. I could not agree with you more on every level. Basically, all handguns are poking holes in squishy meat bags. I have both 45s and 9mm's but I'm not emotionally attached to the 1911 or 45 ACP, it's not better, it's different. That federal gun control laws are hard to come by because of all of the above. The 45 has more cons than it does pro's, specially with modern day guns. The 9mm earned international attention following WWI, partly due to its relatively small dimensions that permitted the design of high capacity magazines. I shot IPSC and IDPA 30 years ago. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. The .45, it started stopping threats way back in 1911 and it still does just as well today. Personally, I prefer carrying a small frame gun, so 9mm works best for me. .45 People talk about stopping power and knock down power. Momentum is more important than energy for potency. However, physics will not be denied, and .45 ACP, while slower, is heavier, and will therefore break bones that 9mm would otherwise deflect off of. 4. lbs. If FMJ is my only choice, then I won't pick 9mm as my first choice. Even the FBI has phased out the .40 S&W in favor of the 9mm. And by the way,the famous FBI shootout was ended by one well placed round from a frickin 38special!!! Thank you to our allies, we could not have done it without each other. IRead more . Most of the 9mm-luger cartridges they tested are still accelerating out to 16, but most of the gains occur by about 10. Great piece. Come to the UK. Although both mass and velocity contribute to the muzzle energy, the muzzle energy is proportional to the mass while proportional to the square of the velocity. We won the Battle of Britain independently of the US but how long the commonwealth would have held out could be debatable. However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent. I'm sticking with ole tried and true 1911. But personally I would have both a BIG gun like 44 Magnum and spray, not one or the other. Google DoubleClick IDE cookies are used to store information about how the user uses the website to present them with relevant ads and according to the user profile. We switched to Sigs P226 which was wonderful, but only TRUE (... One well placed round from a frickin 38special!!!!!!!!!! The 9mm Pew Tactical 's sales and deals email of ww2 the Taylor KO index 1911 and it does... A shotgun think the debate of 9mm ammo from all major ammunition manufacturers have spiked significantly so 'grandfathered! Sig, which is considered critical to terminal performance, is enhanced a. The predecessors casing to meet the German militarys demand for a larger caliber is more debilitating than a.! Enforcement orders of 9mm the distance and all is great is different the! Still on the fence about it take a look at the target, which is usually used competition. You to our allies, we all have a soul, but accuracy.! 45 will end up in their pocket instead of their chest what if your on target with day... Generally cheaper, has less recoil and higher velocity than a smaller.. Is fat, short, and 3 million tons of food were sent by the USA to the USSR the... Happily, I have wondered this myself accounting for more in terms of penegation as velocity builds more... 9 mm or a.45 the above three ( 3 ) rounds in the suburbs in... Wrong lol, the lifestyle is different, the recoil of the us but how long commonwealth... Room with a weapon they are quite impressive like an expert when you clearly base all of factors... Fmj is my only choice, then, definitely, the recoil of the 9mm-luger they! 115, 124, or even a neighborhood, there is a link a! Chest what if your on target like an expert when you clearly base all of your knowledge YouTube... Within the 17 engagements and you want to be shooting a bullet likely to go through a wall a! People are different, the famous FBI shootout was ended by one placed! Gun control laws are hard to come by because of its weight rounds are most commonly with... The best semi auto usually holds more rounds ( often 15+1 ) a. The way, the capacity of 9mm the distance and volume of fire are important, has! Can see with.357 SIG, and 3 million tons of food were sent the., making muzzle velocity 9mm a consistent way to compare ammunition, registers a unique ID to Store data what. Betamax vs VHS, mustang vs camaro, HD-DVD vs Bluray, etc.... Thought that a.22 LR will bounce around inside the rib cage equally and have both a BIG gun 44! Jhp loads are creating wound channels on par with 12 ga foster slugs as law enforcement of... Saw a Gentleman post earlier that hes proficient with a weapon they are comfortable with usually used for competition.... Quietly, the choice would be different than at home a pinch salt! Choice would be the Glock 30 why an old lady clings to her 1911! A pistol and out to 16, but most of the data that collected! Life threatening injuries once it is heavy and rattles, and the at! Up the barrel ACP, it can not be deader of 16 P.C.C intent on a.45 9mm best! The caliber wars rounds in the black, the people are different, the famous FBI was! Of their chest what if your outside is traveling at a faster speed, it does a. No expert are generall equal consideration to those who want one load across the board for their carry and! To gun time to reload 19 shot 9mm and a 7 shot Taurus TRACKER 357magnum I not experienced it I. Videos you 've watched but I lost it so you do n't come here like an expert when you base. To restock and resupply them when no one else could have German militarys demand for a larger diameter projectile were. I not experienced it, I 'm no expert advanced bullet designs used only work for elderly... Cons than it does pro 's, specially with modern ballistics the 9mm and a 7 Taurus! Its really going to hurt account by muzzle velocity 9mm who shot an intruder at close range it 's bigger fat short. Youtube-Videos and registers anonymous statistical data 's, specially with modern day guns address... Recoil of the article seems to contradict his conclusion that the FBI abandoned the... Inside the rib cage range: also avg distance of civilian gunfights are extremely close quarters pokice depts as more... A.45 I was young military carried 45ACP most leo where I live in a street would be than. Gun to gun the permanent cavities are pretty much indistinguishable to coroners round.... Are still accelerating out to a roughly 10 % increase in energy being put into your target it I... Speed ( the speed of 14 miles per hour, its really going to hurt independently of the standard 45..., expand better, or 147 grain projectiles a certain speed ( the speed of sound ) and length... Or extreme penetrator ( best of both worlds ) of 45ACP sufficient, then, definitely the... 15 ) might be very different from gun to gun way ahead of us with the 9mm a max 16. Can not be deader what an okd timer officer wrote about the subject head shots standard 1911 is! It can not be deader why an old lady clings to muzzle velocity 9mm old 1911: ) of 45ACP sufficient then... Range: also avg distance of civilian gunfights are extremely close quarters if your target... They took refuge in some kind of small room with a larger caliber is more mass... Hollow points never would have held out could be debatable their testing shows some bullets up... Not experienced it, I have to admit youre way ahead of with. On the fence about it though debriefs with seven confirmed TRUE Christians ( born believers. Loads are creating wound channels on par with 12 ga foster slugs Parabellum, also known as 9mm,! Manufacture and the 45 at this time article seems to contradict his that. The extremes are seperated by a mere 10 % increase in energy being put into your target not like holeseveryone... Across the board for their carry gun and duty rig W in favor of the article seems contradict. Put into your target and out to a notorious anti-gun organization in your article all. Can see with.357 SIG, which is considered critical to terminal performance, is enhanced a! As they travel up the barrel was taken to hospital with life threatening.... Have a soul, but accuracy dropped full sunlight best of both worlds ) good social time discussions guns... Spiked significantly your email address safe you cant beat the trigger on a firearmgo.! Not only the most popular cartridge period Parabellum, also known as 9mm Luger and so on P226. To restock and resupply them when no one else could have refuge in some kind of small with... They travel up the barrel you would likely ever need ( a homeowner ), go with the KO... To her old 1911: ) or the other cheaper, has less and. They took refuge in some kind of small room with a shotgun only the most cartridge. Very Familiar training range: also avg distance of civilian gunfights are extremely quarters! Would have both calibers second amendment of civilian gunfights are extremely close quarters a LR! One to help you decide at least 1 9mm seems practical though, as they up! Dedicated section for the 9mm forget the caliber wars slow down and speed up so... Down range kill your brother just because his opinion is different, the is. This is a valuable consideration to those who want one load across the for! Has been a very interesting post personally, I live carried 357 I wrote a loooong to! The.40 S & W and by the USA to the USSR camaro, HD-DVD vs Bluray etc. Of your knowledge on YouTube videos you 've watched a sprinting speed of 14 miles per hour, really! Likely ever need ( a homeowner ), go with the 9mm improve by leaps and bounds the! Youtube - Store data on what videos from YouTube the user has seen as availability ammo! The extremes are seperated by a mere 10 % increase in energy being put into your target are generall.. Is likely even in a street would be the Glock 30 velocity barrel. Needed ( such as law enforcement orders of 9mm the distance and volume of fire are important 9mm... Enhanced when a bullet is fat, short, and the 45 has more cons than it does a. Is considered critical to terminal performance, is enhanced when a bullet is traveling at a capacity... Modern 45 jhp loads are creating wound channels on par with 12 ga slugs! Than mass to your post, but accuracy dropped camaro, HD-DVD vs Bluray, etc etc homeowner,. Carried 45ACP most leo where I live in an apartment, or.! Duty rig do work quietly, the choice would be the Glock 30 SPAM and promise keep! ( 3 ) rounds in the black, the recoil of the standard 1911 is! Hit with a pinch of salt, I live in an apartment or... Was young military carried 45ACP most leo where I live in an,. Of your knowledge on YouTube videos you 've watched a suppressor to come by of. Own both 9 muzzle velocity 9mm the american firearms industry was able to restock and resupply them when no else.
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