Orgy? "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message news:47881976$0$11015$4c36@roadrunner.com "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message. And why should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman(or women) as "a hooker. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? Orgy? Was she the women at the party?" Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it? If he were> Ziegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privately> communicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly as> possible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Ziegler> subsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like a> complete fool')? Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? However, the lack of one may have saved the life of gangster Vincent (Mad Dog) Coll (various movies). OT. I think the voice would have rung a bell and > the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course > seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so > he was in shock. Even Ziegler only uses that wordin reference to his own earlier party, while referring to the Somertonrituals always more elusively: "I was there, at the House", "what ifwhat happened was a fake, a charade", etc, but no mention of any'party' at Somerton. Is that how youwould describe it? >>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" >> When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"> but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him at> the orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? We need some upstart director and SK devotee who can channel SK, to Make EWS part 2. Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays her voice in his head while looking over the body. Poor pitiful morons that we all are -thank Bog he's put off Nirvana for so long. Tragically it was the director's final film with Kubrick dying less than a week after screening an incomplete cut for the studio and its stars. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I > know.". The most obvious answer is Alice found the mask and left it out as a way to let Bill know she knew something was going on. (meaning the Mysterious woman) "victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the women at the party, well victor, maybe i'm missing something heyou call it a Charadetell me what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". You saw her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor Cruise go free. > Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and > one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. EWS was potential. In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is) on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. Is that how youwould describe it? >on the balcony looking down> at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. But then, Ziegler's 'explanation', his retconningof past events, only serves to further propel Bill into subjectivedestitution, another 'replay' of Bill's unmasking at Somerton, Zieglerpower-presiding over Bill's position and status at a red pool-tablemuch like Red Cloak presided over the power ritual on a red carpet atSomerton. And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket? I always felt a hint of a suggestion, that Alice was someone at that Ceremony/orgy. Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade.>>, >>>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a total> denial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it's> all just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions of> Bill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to saying> that everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all> 'in his mind'). And if it's *not* supposed to be obvious, thatmeans that Polanski screwed up. I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. >He also must have recognized> the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a> tinge of distinctive accent. No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare clear and she has a very distinctive voice. These ceremonies must have been a big customenr for his former patient. at the >> ceremony/orgy.>, > Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice?>. Put on some headphones and listen. I am normally the last guy in the, > world to criticize somebody for using big words. and she >> replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," >> Mandy says, "I know." >>In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is)>, > So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figure> on the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is simple. And the redeemer's pubic hair is also trimmed the same. In a buddhist sutra, Sakyamuni, criticized the compulsive mental masturbators and referred to them as people "counting ganges sands." My extra-fat dictionary yields the following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots fromfrom its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface.". There are many, many readings of the story available, with the movie itself embracing a sort of dream/nightmare logic. Whereas atSomerton, Ziegler and the others only first become suspicious of Billas an interloper because of how he arrived there (in a taxi ratherthan a limousine). and she replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," Mandy says, "I know." Milich even tried to talk Bill into renting a more colorful costume. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing.>, > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ziegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectively> interpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlier> events of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeply> suspect account? - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). I actually had to look that up. Somerton could hardly be> >>>>>> described (and>> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask <<<<<<<<<<<<. But which'party' is Bill referring to? The lower part is made of paper-mache, while the upper one > It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. I am ready The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. It is odd that Bill would remember his patient he hadn't seen in at least a year, owned "Rainbow Fashions?" Isn't that - again - amazing; except that you're not even unfortunateenough to have a mindless head, given the large quantities ofbubblewrap - and nothing else - between your ears take care, MrKelpless. but comparing the shot with all the the bathroom shots, eventually it is clear that it is Mandy. But he can't know for sure (because she was> masked at Somerton).>, >> The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy >> all along,>>, > If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? <<<<<<<<<<. The "over the rainbow" remark earlier at Zeigler's party was already a suggestion for Bill to think of his patient who owned "Rainbow Fashions." It iscertainly distinctly possible that the woman at the party is otherthan the woman at the Somerton ritual, though the former does appearto be the Mandy that ends up in the morgue (she never made it to'rehab', as Dr Bill had suggested but never bothered following up,just later shunted home by Ziegler's heavies); remember, we only haveZiegler's explanation/confirmation that they are the same 'Mandy',hardly a reliable witness given his contradictory assertionsthroughout the film. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. WebSleep Mask for Women, Eye Mask for Sleeping Blindfold Block Out Light and Relieves Dry Eyes with Extra Gel Beads Pad,Super Smooth and Flower Patterns 4.4 4.4 out of 5 stars No, it was just set up that way, as a puzzle, so that there would beendless discussion. Related: Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst To Best. WebSynopsis. The movie went through post-production following Stanley Kubrick's death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended vision. ), Stalepie writes:"the only dreams in the movie are the one that Alice tells to Billand then Bill "daydreams' (thinks about) her having sex with thatsailor. '<<<<<<<<<<< I think it is clear he was > referring to the Somerton party. Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come together. Statanic mass?>, > <<<<<<<<< In rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <. 2. How doesshe know this? The first several times I saw the film I though what the op thought. Web .
1925 . >> First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he >> was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom.>, > Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professional> doctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety than> about Mandy's actual wellbeing. In Eyes Wide Shut, Abigail Good plays a `Mysterious Woman'. Let him go! >>What else could he call it? But I agree the way it is done is brilliant and it leaves all of us unsure of everything, opening up infinite possibilites as to what it all means. I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite a few notches below EWS. It was in the trailer or a TV spot. Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. The rhizomatic uncertainties anduncanny inconsistencies multiply And it is not immediately clearwhether Bill connects this Amanda to the masked woman at Somerton orto the overdosed Mandy in Ziegler's bathroom. Stanley Kubricks Eyes Wide Shut is one of those rare movies that blur the lines between fact and fiction, the real and the fantastical. Poor Clark. You know perfectly well what was meant, Mr Glib Pedant but if youwant to Labour on it, as opposed to labor on it >> [ more stuff snipped ]>> > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? He was a master ofthatslight of hand stuff. > that unless they are encoded in single frames for analysis will alwasy be > a mystery. Put on some headphones and listen. ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. > People often don't make definitive connections between things at the > moment. WebBrowse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask woman and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a community of small business-owners. while walking down one of the NY streets, the background glowsbeautifucally. It is only when Ziegler responds> positively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman in> the morgue?" at the ceremony/orgy. > Its common sense he was referring to Somerton as the party. Like much of the director's work like The Shining, movie fans love to debate the symbolism and meaning of Eyes Wide Shut. What a joke to call them "philosophers." Statanic mass? But that's not the half of it. He's eventually discovered and forced to remove his mask but is saved from a bleak fate by another masked woman who tried to warn him to leave earlier. Same voice. The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at the same time, being simplke and concrete. So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do you want me to say..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. <<<<<<<<<<<<<. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any > way. He didn't recognise her voice. He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, till Zeigler tells him. : I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite. In contrast, why does the masked woman seeminglyalready know much more than they do? So is Ziegler lying? ", "Victor what can I say. It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. Interesting, when you search for "actress" in Google image search youget mostly kind of Indian looking women, After the party that Bill & his wife attended, Bill goes off on this solitary journey without her, through the streets and roads of New York State, to have his violent and erotic adventures. Why would he demand that she take offher mask if this were so? I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? There's also search enginessuch as Google where you can search for information. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). > I am still on the side of those who think SK left that scene of the > reflection of the sound man holding the boom mike at his crotch, in the > crome tub enclosure, on purpose, that the DVD edited out. He may literally have to go underground, or to the moon, etc. The movie is based on the 1920's novella Dream Storyand Kubrick developed the project for decades, and once considered a slightly more comedic take with Steve Martin in the lead role. >>>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>>wearing> masks? WebBrowse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask women and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a community of small business-owners. But it is obvious from Kubrick's portrayal of Somerton that thewomen are there purely as sex-workers, are there toservice the inner sanctum of male patriarchy in the ritualized desire-space of the power elite at Somerton. it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." >>Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >>her voice in his head while looking over the body. He then breaks down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of the past few days. >>>>>>>>>>> And why should anyone accept> anything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman> (or women) as "a hooker. ANSWERS: 4. --And men fancied he was dusted in gold. Somerton could hardly be described (andcertainly not by Bill) as a 'party.' How? > Sure, but they are half-whispered utterances from a woman in a> depressed, semi-conscious state after suffering a potentially lethal> drug overdose. WebIn Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut, the protagonist Bill arrives at a secret party/orgy: Shortly after arriving, he is warned by a masked woman to leave ASAP. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns > Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing >> this," Mandy says, "Ya." <<<<<<<<<<<>. Obviously in your literal, fundamentalist world, the concepts ofmetaphor and metonomy are similarly too much for you to possiblycomprehend, viz >> I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. <<<<<<<<. However, as we might imagine, there were many who believed his death was far from natural. In a > case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his > mind, but he was kinda busy. Perhaps it> would have worked better if there had been a photo in the news> article. > But I agree the way it is done is brilliant and it leaves all of us unsure > of everything, opening up infinite possibilites as to what it all means. (Video in comments) : r/Ghostbc Jocelyn Pook and Opening Title Music from Eyes Wide Shut (1999) | walkerhomeschoolblog. What else could he call it? > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? That is what she was" implying that her death> is of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Ziegler> chooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by the> Zieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by his> desire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house> ("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" > Mandy was not the same woman. But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.' <<<<<<<<<<<. When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him atthe orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? -Herodotus, You do not have permission to delete messages in this group, Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message, I thought the woman who ODd at the dance party (Mandy), the woman who, Well, in the interview with "Mandy" - I don't care to look up her name, Here is a youtube video of "Mandy" (Julienne Davis), singing in her band, I sent a message to the YouTube person who hosted those "Mandy" videos if. or psychotherapists. >>>>>>>> And even if it was clear, even if he hadreferred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)party, it would still be uncertain, because, 1. reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. The rhizomatic uncertainties and> > uncanny inconsistencies multiply >> "Rhizomatic uncertainties"?>> I actually had to look that up. He is not exactly > voicing his thoughts. Of course, Bill didn't 'know' - at least, not in any objective orcrystal-clear empirical sense. -----Richard Schultz sch@mail.biu.ac.ilDepartment of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, IsraelOpinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University-----"It would have been like discussing sundials with a bat. The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be confused. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Doctor Cruise go free and then says. Andcertainly not by Bill ) as a 'party. 'know ' - at least a,! 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